From Starbucks Barista to $16M Trader | Alex Temiz

So, I grew that 35,000 into a million dollars in 55 days. When you feel the most invincible in your trading is when you're the most vulnerable in your trading. And I learned that the hard way. It's almost like quicks. The more you fight, the deeper you sink, dude. The slowest way out of a draw down or to even survive is to try and get out of a hole fast. But nobody wants to hear that. What has been one of the toughest parts and and what helped you get through that time? So, imagine selling your car rims to fund your trading account, then turning that $2,000 into over $16 million in trading profits. Alex Tez was making lattes at Starbucks when his girlfriend left him for a rich dude. And that kicked off one of the best comeback stories in trading history. Today, we break down exactly how Alex did it. So, Alex, give us the lowdown. How old were you? What happened? Tell us what teenage heartbreak was like and how that led you onto your path to trading. >> It's a crazy story, man. So, 12 years ago, I was a bree at Starbucks making coffee and I was making around $150 to $200 a week working part-time. I had a girlfriend at the time and I would spend, you know, $50 on gas cuz gas was expensive like it is right now. I would spend another $50 on like popcorn, all the other stuff cuz that was expensive, too. And I was left with maybe an extra $50 to $100. And long story short, she ended up breaking up with me to be with a rich guy. And it like totally devastated me. And I started researching the fastest ways to make money in America. It was real estate and the stock market. Real estate had a super high barrier to entry. You need a lot of money to get started. The stock market, you could open up a cow with as little as $500. So that's what I did. And dude, when I started, I had like this incredible talent. Every single time I bought a stock, every time it would go straight down immediately, like every single time. So, you started selling your inverse alerts and you made everyone millions. You made yourself fast, easy money. That's how you did it. >> And that's how I got my Lambo. No, but I was like, dude, like what the hell is this thing, dude? Like, how is it that like I hit buy and like it's almost like, you know, the feeling when like like the market is like rigged against you? You feel it's like that. I hit buy and then like boom, like it would just go straight down. I was like, "Okay, I lost money my first year." And then by my second year, I started to discover something called short selling, which for people that don't know is making money when stocks go down. I was like, "Dude, this is perfect. Instead of hitting the buy button, I'm just going to hit the short button and I'm going to be rich." And I remember my first short trade ever. I shorted 2,000 shares of VGGL at $4 a share. It went down 50. I made $1,000. It was the most money I ever made. And from there, I was hooked. So, my second year, I started to break even. about my third year I became profitable because the problem between year two and year three was I started shorting everything and that's not a process right so I had to start to find something that was repeatable something that was consistent and discover a pattern back then like there wasn't as many resources out there for trading education you know we're talking like 12 years ago man you know it's things were different back then and I didn't know that I couldn't just short everything right it was it was a great theory like short where I would be buying And like that's sort of worked and it kind of got me to start thinking about the market a different way. But what really got me from year two to year three to become profitable was finding a pattern that was repeatable. And back then what I was looking for is I was looking for these daily charts that would wick up and wick down on the same day. And whenever I saw that pattern now I was like, "Okay, I've seen it happen before. History repeats itself. The last five times this stock did that. It should do it again." And that's kind of what started to give me a strategy of being like, "All right, instead of just shorting everything, let me just start shorting this specific pattern." And then it dominoed from there. >> And so all of this was really self-directed, right? Like so you were just assumingly just no guidance, no mentor, trying to figure out figure it out on your own and really learning pattern recognition based on your own actions and what you were doing wrong. >> Yeah, I didn't have enough money for trading courses or trading education. I remember that. I think back in the day like a typical like trading course is maybe like $2,000 for the year and I didn't have that and the monthly was like let's say 300 bucks and like when you do the math it makes no sense. So like I was just learning through trial and error on my first couple years and then that's kind of when you know I started to join other communities. I started to attend trading conferences. I started to finally find some sort of room to be able to invest in learning different things. And so those initial days, that decision of, oh wait, I'm buying these smaller cap stocks, they're going down, so I'm going to inverse this. That's what really led you even to today, your bias for shorting small cap stocks right? >> I dude, I suck at going long. It's like one of the biggest things, one of the biggest reasons why I love your content is you are the capitulation long king. That's where I am completely clueless, right? So using your content, the right side of the V, uh, hold over the previous candle. That's kind of what I'm using to now get to the next level of not only being biased to the short side, but having these major major major wash out long opportunities to take advantage of. >> Well, I appreciate you saying that. You know, I'll send you your affiliate check in the mail. And we can even get to this with with trade examples later, but we were even discussing silver at the time of this recording because you actually have grown your trading to play some of those flesh out longs quite successfully now. >> Correct. Yeah, silver uh as by the time we're recording this was down 12% to around 59 or 60 SLV and I went long in the morning. I got stopped out one or two times until I got the right side of the V with small size. When that right side, the V happened, when we reclaimed VWAP, when we got over the high of the day around 62, it was just gas from there. >> Yep. We made that high volume flush out. And this is on March 19th for for context. We'll add the chart today, but it had that flush out right right before the open or I think a little after 9:00 a.m. Then it made that that higher low right off the open, then boom, off to the races. Correct. >> Yep. So, we we'll talk about that. And so, you start to find >> early stage success. When do you start to find community? Because obviously you run my invest my investing club and like so much of what you've built now revolves around that. So how what was your transition to go from isolated trader all on your own towards trading with others? >> Yeah, I mean Twitter Twitter helped a lot when I was first getting started now called X. But you know one of the guys that was really early on in my trading journey was Bow Modern Rock. He was always part of our always part of the Twitter universe, always posting online. And it's actually funny because back then, I would say probably year three, year four into my trading journey, I tried, you know, the Tim Sykes, I tried Investors Underground, I tried everything. But I remember having one of my biggest days at the time. It was a $67,000 day on CLTX. And can't remember how old I was, maybe 22, something around, 23, something like this. And I got a direct message from Nate from IU and he said, "You have to come to Traders for a Cause." And I think it was the second year that they were doing Traders for a Cause. And dude, $67,000 I made. I had some money in my pocket. And I was like, "Okay, like let me talk to my dad, you know, and my dad lost a bunch of money during 2008 when the market crashed because he listened to like CNBC and like sold everything." So, he had like Netflix pre-split, you know, at like $80, Facebook back in the day, uh, you know, around $50, $60, like really, really, really low that you look now, it's like 10x, right? But back then, he sold everything because that's what, you know, the talking heads said to do. He's like, "The market's a scam." He's like, "You're going to get scammed. Like, these people are scamming you. Like, I'll take you to Vegas to show you that this is going to be a scam." And when we went to Vegas, he saw, you know, how professional everyone was and he's like, "Oh, wow. Maybe this isn't a scam." When I was in Vegas, Bao was presenting and he put a P&L calendar on the screen of out of 252 trading days, I think he lost like eight days, right? Some insane insane stat. And he was talking, he was very clean, eloquent, and talking with the process. By the end of that conference, my dad is like, "This guy seems like he knows what he's doing. Like, this isn't a scam." So back then I was a kid and obviously Bao has you know called internet celebrity at the time. So, I went up to him and I was like, "Hey, Ba, like I really enjoyed your presentation. Like, I would love to keep in touch." And he goes, "Yeah, sure, kid. Like, nice to see you. I'm going to go have a drink." And I was like, "Cool." Like, that's like that B just talked to me. You know what I'm saying? And then what ended up happening after that is he ended up going through a divorce. And he didn't really have many people to talk to about it. But, you know, we stayed in touch. We started to communicate. And what we realized is he was very good at technical analysis and I was very good at fundamental analysis. his strength was my weakness, my weakness was his strength. We got together, we got to talking and then that's kind of what ballooned everything else. >> So at that time, where was your trading at then? What helped you kind of go to the next level? Were and what were some of the setbacks along the way? >> Yeah, I would say that back at that time, you know, I was starting to find consistency trading. you know, I was maybe making a couple hundred dollars a day, maybe a couple thousand dollars in a day, scaling, scaling, scaling until eventually I had that really big opportunity on CLTX, which was one of those gap and craps, but on a much larger scale, you know? So, what helped me scale after that? I mean, what I learned is like trading is about confidence. It's about trusting your process and having a routine that you could follow to repeat and make money every day. Like for example, it started off with the gap and crap, right? That was one type of playbook and then eventually like the first red day. And the first red day is obviously very very common right now, but back then that was something that Bao was using on OTC's. He was using that on OTC's all the time. And he was like consistently making money doing that. But what really changed it for me is I started to recognize that that first red day had like a 90% win rate and Bao was not aggressively sizing up into those trades. he was just treating them as like a normal like you know regular day trade. But what I started to realize is wait a second this pattern happens at such a high win rate that why don't I just be very very very aggressive on that one. And that's eventually what taught me dynamic sizing. You know what I'm saying? So like BA was treating that setup as a nor like a a C setup like a normal setup. You make some money you do you walk away. But what I start to recognize through pattern recognition, back testing, checking my stats is, wait a second, this setup works like 90% of the time, 95% of the time. So like, why don't I be more aggressive with my bet size? And you know, back then I was super super aggressive with first red day. Now kind of everyone's kind of figured that out and it's become a lot less powerful. But dude, back then like that was like huge to recognize dynamic sizing. Well, it's funny because I think so many of these trading principles are universal and we are very different traders. I've interviewed all sorts of different traders and so many people, especially if they're self-directed, it all starts with pattern recognition, reverse engineering. Wait, I'm doing something wrong. I'm losing money. Let me view that as signal. What can I learn from these mistakes? You refine. You make different conclusions. Your strategy adapts. And then ultimately as you get those reps, you get those patterns, you were able to piece together that next step in the puzzle through bao, which is which is also the benefit of team trading, right?% >> because that allowed you were good, BA was good, but A plus B equaled something much greater because I'm sure once you started sizing up, BAO connects the dots of like, oh wait, I should be sizing up, too. And even at the firm level, I've been lucky to have traded out of proprietary trading firm most of my career and certainly the beginning. That's the type of thing that's happening all the time. And so you each were elevating each other and getting confidence from from that work together. It's actually really funny because what we started to do as well is we would show up every day and we would make a watch list together. And we would try to determine if Bow liked the stock and I didn't like the stock, we would not be aggressive. If I liked the stock and Bow didn't like the stock, we wouldn't be aggressive. If BA liked it and I liked it, that was the green light that we should be aggressive. So, we're almost checking our work. It's like even like uh about call it a week ago, two weeks ago, we had that big first red day on oil USO. It went from like 125 by the close it hit like 98. The day before that happened, I don't know if you remember, I texted you asking what your thought is. I talked to Luchi about it. I talked to Jack about it. I talked to Laptop Legend about it. I talked to Raph about it. >> What did I tell you? I think I said what? Go max long until like 124, then flip max short. You told me zero DT options, close my eyes, mortgage my house, and short everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that was my uh definite investment and financial advice. >> So, think about that. So, even now to this day, I'm trying to use my network of traders and just like double check my work. I didn't say like, Lance, how should I trade this? I said, Lance, like this is what I'm thinking. If there is a news catalyst and like a press release, like I should be prepared for that. And, you know, is it better to do, you know, the options or the stock or just double-checking my work? And even now, you know, that led to a great $200,000 day on oil, which obviously I underperformed. But even now, that same process of double-checking with BAO, I'm trying to double check with other traders just to make sure that I'm not missing something, you know? >> Well, and here's what I love about so many of of the really good traders I know, people like yourself, is that a lot of a lot of these guys can can sit on their butt. They don't need to get better. They don't need to be on top of their game. And someone like yourself, I I very much appreciate that you're a fan of my content and you you follow my course and everything, but like you are constantly hitting up traders. Traders like Raph at at SMB Capital, he's constantly hitting up other traders. And all the good traders I know are still elevating their game, still refining their pods, refining their viewpoints, and like the work doesn't stop because of that that love of the game. Honestly, >> it's adapt or die, man. market is ever changing, things are changing, and I feel like a really highlevel trader is always willing to learn from maybe someone that hasn't even made as much as them because there's always new strategies, new processes, new things that like we could learn. Like someone maybe younger than us is super locked into AI back testing or whatever it is. They might not have made as much money as us, but they're locked into a different type of way to improve our trading. So I think no matter what skill level of trader you are is you don't need to just learn from people that have made way more than you. You could learn from people that are, you know, talented in other areas of the trading niche as well. >> Well, you see that at SMB Capital all the time where you have teams of very senior traders with with newer traders, but you're trying to balance the different skill sets, utilize each person and and it works well. Yeah. And so one question I have for you is as you've been adapting over over you know a decade plus career. What has been one of the toughest parts and and what helped you get through that time? >> So let me talk about two things. First I'm going to talk about my worst trade ever and then I'm going to talk about you know what I was stubborn about in my trading. So let's start with the stubborn actually be easier. So my biggest thing is I came from a Middle Eastern family where all Middle Eastern men are stubborn as hell dude. My grandpa is stubborn, my freaking dad is stubborn, my uncle is stubborn. So like I ended up becoming stubborn when I like started trading. And I was very ignorant to stop out. I would be, you know, letting risk be out of control. And I didn't really understand until later in my trading how important it was to be almost like neutral. You know, you can't be biased towards any direction in the market because at any moment, at any time, something could come out, something could change, right? Like we could be at oil going to all-time highs and then all of a sudden Trump says something and then it crashes down. You need to be able to adapt in your trading. So early on, I was unwilling to be adaptable. I was more biased. So that's definitely one thing that if I could go back and change is stop being so stubborn, listen to my risk, you know, be adaptable, be nimble, and you know, I would have had tons more money if I was just using more uh broker regulated stops. I was a deer in headlights. I was unable to stop out and I needed the technology to be able to stop me out through max loss per day, you know, max ticker loss, max size, auto liquidation, whatever else may be. Well, to that point, and James Clear of Atomic Habits speaks about this all the time, is a lot of times as traders and humans, our willpower is weak, and people will say, "Oh, hey, Lance, I'm not taking my st or this or that." And well, the thing is, we live in the technological age right now and you can code anything so easily. And so, even if your broker doesn't have a max loss, there are so many ways now that you can code creative solutions. And I am seeing especially the last couple months traders starting to code really really unique stuff to automate their workflow to better safeguard their trading to recognize when they're at their weakest and it's something that just isn't that good of an excuse anymore. Like if you don't have good risk management and you're not controlling your environment to safeguard you, well that's on you at this point. >> Yeah, 100% man. And like for me it's like if you like I love chocolate cake, dude. Chocolate cake, chocolate brownie, hot fudge, ice cream. So, >> talk dirt in me, baby. >> Dude, if it's at my house, I'll eat it. So, I have a strict rule. No junk food at my house because I'll find a way to eat it, right? I've tried my wife locking it, my wife hiding it. I find it, dude. So, like for me, it's better to not be in the realm of temptation because I understand within myself, I do not have the willpower to control it. So, I have to do other things to be able to, you know, control my life and my trading, which is using the technology or having the junk food out of the house. Um, and then now let's talk about my worst loss ever. Um, so my worst loss ever was on TP. I lost around $450,000 in one day and it was devastating. And here's what happened. So, it still kind of chokes me up. >> This trade is a while ago, too. So, this was way earlier in your career. I would say probably like uh maybe two three years ago something like that. So what is that? >> Okay. So yeah. Okay. I missed I think there is a prior move um even earlier than that. And that TOPS it was D and all that. >> No not TOPS to OP. To tops was a shipper. >> Oh sorry I misheard you bet on that. >> So D and so DRS was actually my first six figure day. >> Oh god. Yeah. That was my first $100,000 day. >> Um but T was the Chinese liquidation. So, I listened to your pod with Serge where he got caught on Zjy L which was [ __ ] up. That's that sucks. But, uh, I was on he got he got caught in that, right? It limited it up and did the whole thing. I was just being an idiot on mine. So, here's what happened. So, uh, I think it was 2022, 2023, whatever the year is. Um, I reset my trading account to $35,000. And I wanted to see how long it would take me to grow that $35,000 into a million. So, I grew that 35,000 into a million dollars in 55 days. I hit an unbelievable market. It was Bed Bath and Beyond, like GameStop, like all these crazy crazy things that were happening. So, like within like the first month, that 300 that 35K was like 300 grand. So, I was on a massive win streak. I was feeling good. I was feeling confident. Normally, I would withdraw profits. I would, you know, wire out profits, but I was like, you know what? This year, I'm going to be a big- time trader. This year, I'm going to trade like a big million dollar account. I'm going to do the whole thing. Let's say [ __ ] I got to uh a million dollars in 55 days. How much higher can I get? So, while this was all happening was all these Chinese liquidation scams like the I lag and you know all these other things where they would push up get some volume and on the first limit down on volume they would end up liquidating and going down to like 50 cents right down 90%. While this whole stretch of you know 35k to a million was happening I caught none of them zero. Not a single one I caught. Coming after that 55 days, TP shows up. Chinese liquidation. I said, "Here we go, baby. I'm going to make a million dollars on. >> Now's your chance. >> Now's my chance. >> You missed it the first 12 times, but now is your chance. >> My account is capitalized. I'm at the most confident I've ever been. Let's go for it." >> What could go wrong? Nothing. >> Dude, >> you're invincible, bro. >> I'm invinc When you are the most when you are when you feel the most invincible in your trading is when you're the most vulnerable in your trading. And I learned that the hard way. Um, so TP was doing the same pattern. It pushed up. It limited down and I shorted size. But what was the difference this time? After it limited down, it didn't continue down. It held a higher low and started to reclaim. At this point, I'm like, okay, this is a little bit weird. Now it breaks high of the day. Normally, I should be stopping out at that high of the day because the trade thesis is no longer valid. What was my plan? My plan was get into the trade. If it limits down and continues down, that's the same pattern as everything else. This was not conforming to the pattern. It broke high the day. Instead of stopping out, I added more. And then it had another limit down, but this time when it limited down, it held again and consolidated for like four or five hours. So, I just kept adding and adding and adding and adding. And all of a sudden, I was in a mega large position, larger than any normal winning trade I would have on a stock that I was losing on a stock that was consolidating all day. And about five or 10, I think it was about 10 minutes before the market closed, it limited up. And I was like, "Oh [ __ ] dude. I'm dead." Because it limited up and now there's going to be no liquidity after. So >> it, you know, this is around like $15. It limits up to like $20 and maybe the high of the day is like $21. So it's limiting up right at the high of the day. And dude, I was like, "Dude, if I don't get out, like I'm I'm done." So it opens up from 20 to 30, 30 to 40, and I'm just stopping out, stopping out, stopping out. By the time I got out of my full position, it was probably like4 or $50. I lost 400 grand, and the next day it went to 300. I would have lost like 10 million. >> Oh my god. >> You would never heard from me again. >> That would have been crazy. Well, that's the scary part about this game, honestly, especially the shorting small cap game, is all it takes is one. Like the amount of traders have actually really good traders that actually walk away from this game. It's so small >> and I broke every single rule in the book. I >> But it happens. We're human. Like over the long run, we all eventually break our rules. >> Yep. After that day, I was completely like mentally just like not normal because I was like, "Dude, what did I just do here?" Like >> you question everything about yourself and and oh my god, like how did I let that happen? >> Exactly. And dude, I just like I'm thinking in my head like why did I just keep adding to the loser? Why do I keep adding? Like I just kept like add add like hoping and praying like maybe there's still a chance this turns like maybe there's still like that. So I >> and in your gut you know you're [ __ ] Like you know it >> it's like I was talking to Dr. Steamar um you know and he was mentioning that you know whenever you have that feeling in your gut or you're sweating or your palms are weak and like you're just like not it >> arms are heavy there's vomit on your sweater already. uh that means that that's your body's natural way of telling you that you're doing something wrong. >> So, as most traders ignore that feeling, you have to recognize that feeling and use it to help you. >> Well, here's an interesting point, right? Like I think I think most people out there, they think of you and I, oh, we're we're emotionless robots. Oh, we're so disciplined. No, no, no, no, no. We are human like everyone else. And I think what happens as you get more and more experienced is you start to first of all you train your tuition like your your intuition sorry you train your intuition and your intuition rather than being based on amateur nothingness it's based on all the data and your experiences and patterns but then I also think you train to identify these emotions and be more self-aware in the moment and use that as signal. Y >> so you know that feeling in your pit of your stomach when something's panicking but it's opportunity and you also know that feeling in your pit of your stomach deep down when you are messing up and you are breaking your rules. You know that and that is your body saying no bad don't do this and it's our job as a experienced elite trader to recognize that and ideally it's the hardest part like self-awareness is super hard to then be able to do the next level of self-awareness but then to break out of that trance in the moment and say no like self-preservation I got to get the f out of this position. >> Yeah. It's almost like when you're in that place, it's almost like you're drunk, right? And you have to like slap yourself and sober up or else you're going to spiral. Um, and something that really I think that's what's important as well is like that loss would have been, you know, there's two different things that could have happened. I could have one had that loss and completely spiraled forever and never recovered and mentally been shot. or I could have used that loss to show me that there was a leak in my trading bucket and I have a way to patch it up, right? So, what did I do after? So, what I did after to recover from that loss is I pushed size because I was like, dude, I got to make this back as fast as possible. So, the next day I made like 70 grand, but the day after that I lost a hundred and I was like, dude, that's it. That's it. I can't do this anymore. So, like I had to instead of trying to power my way to making the loss back, I had to get back to basics. I had to get back to slow and steady. What is my easy money trade? What can I do to consistently build my confidence? Because my confidence was shot. And I think by the end of the year, not only did I make back that loss, but I made an extra million on top of it. >> It's so so counterintuitive and nobody wants to hear this. Nobody wants to listen to this, especially when you're younger. But the fastest way out of a draw down is to slowly hit singles and rebuild yourself. >> Yep. >> The slowest way out of a draw down or to even survive is to try and get out of a hole fast. But nobody wants to hear that. And what people will do is if they're in call it a 100k hole and they reduce their size, they think, "Oh man, a $1,000 win, it's going to take me a hundred winning days." When it's like, "No, no, no. You can't extrapolate. Just focus on hitting one good trade." as Bella would say, hit your singles and build from there. But nobody wants to think that way. >> After a big loss, what's messed up is up here. >> Y >> and consistency and you know, showing up and just nailing singles fixes up here because if not, if you continue to take outsiz losses, if you continue to like screw up, it's almost like quicksand. The more you fight, the deeper you sink, dude. >> Yep. So now there's two places I want to take this. The first, especially because I was on the prop side and never had to deal with this. Essentially, risk management via wiring out. I always got paid every single month, right? Well, assuming I made money, so I would get paid every month. My buying power, boom, reset every day. Whatever the firm wants, my buying power, it's that. I don't need to worry about that. Now, on the on myself, even on the retail side, now you need to think about account management. And I think especially if you're shorting small caps, which is inherently risky, the best thing you can do is wire out. Wire out, stash acorns, not go grow too big for your britches. So, what do you view as your risk management and your wiring out kind of rule and system? >> Dude, wiring out changed my life. Like I wire out more than probably most traders think. Like I probably wire out like depending on how good trading is, but like at least once a week. >> Wow. >> You know, because for me, what I realized is two things. Number one is at first I thought to be a successful trader meant that you had to have like a million-doll account. Like you need to trade with size. You needed to be aggressive and you need to do that. But what I started to realize is like the more money that you have in your trading account, it's actually more risk because all it takes is one bad misstep in your trading psychology and your whatever it may be to ruin that, right? Because when the money is available, it's a lot easier to abuse it. For example, if make the math easy, let's say you have $100,000 account and you're drawing down 20 25 grand. Like that [ __ ] sucks, dude. That's bad. But if you have a million dollar account, you're drawing down 25 grand. Screw it. Let it go to 50. Let it go to a hundo. Ah, 200. No big deal. So, what I found is like the more money that is in your trading account, the more for me personally, the more loose I get, the more I ignore the risk cuz I'm like the money is there. But if I'm trading with a tighter amount and these days brokers give you like 4x leverage, four times leverage, you know, like for the small cap stocks that we're trading, technically the more size you have, you become your own liquidity risk. So it doesn't really mean more size is the answer for small caps, you know. So for me, I found that wiring money out of my trading account and putting it into my bank account makes it real. If the money just sits in your trading account, it's like a video game, dude. like you're just looking at numbers going up and down, but like when it hits my bank account and I see the money there, dude, it's like a feeling of ease. It's like a feeling of comfort. It's a feeling of like, dude, I don't have to worry about anything. Because if I I would prefer to have 900 grand in my bank account and 100 grand in my trading account versus 100 grand in my bank account and 900 grand in my trading account. Simply for the way that I trade, it doesn't require a large account size. So I personally feel that as traders if you are consistent if you are profitable don't be fooled that you need to have the largest account and a million dollar account $2 million account $10 million whatever it may be is take the money and put it into your bank because when you put it into your bank it gives you safety it gives you security and it gives you a way to invest outside of the market like I've been very fortunate that I've been putting my money aside for the last couple years you know ever since 2020 when I saw the market crash down and rebound up very past, I was like, "Dude, I have to get involved." So, over the last, you know, five years, I've been setting money aside, whether it be in venture capital, whether it be in real estate, whether it be in indexes, whether it be in alternative investments, and, you know, I think it was, you know, last year and the year before, I was making more money from the longerterm investments and from trading. >> That's amazing. Well, the other thing too is I think part of the toxicity of of kind of the online culture is everyone is seduced by the big home runs and the big winners when just again going back to that point that so few people walk out of this game alive with with real material amounts of wealth where it's like so many people would be better off doing what you're advising and it's not how big of an account can I grow how big of a win but how much are you actually stashing away and you don't need to be the hero just have a long career. Actually, I mean, you were you were a traders for a cause. My whole talk was on the longevity in trading and how in those later years of your career, everything goes exponential. You just got to stick around. >> 100%, man. And like I think that's just really important is like look, you know, everyone wants to be a successful trader and successful trading means different things to different people, right? So, for me to be a successful trader, it's not dependent on my P&L. P&L is important, but what's dependent for me is low stress, more freedom, and just being happy when I come to the desk rather than being stressed. I've had the sleepless nights. I've had the nights of panicking. You know, I've had the the toxicity that trading may be. And now that I am at a higher level, I realize that I am willing to sacrifice P&L to have less stress, to have more freedom. And that's kind of what's important to me right now. >> I love it. So earlier you also mentioned after that draw down you were really focusing on going back to your easy money trades. Would you mind walking us through a couple of what you consider easy money trades? >> Sure. So what I focus on these days is I look for small cap stocks that are making really really big moves premarket and then fading off. Usually what happens in the small cap world now is there's usually a hot stock of the day. There's like five or 10 stocks that run crazy pre-market, but there's usually one that sticks, right? And there's nine that are kind of like duds. So, what I'm trying to do is back in the day, I thought that the best way to short was to short that big major runner that has all the volume, all the attention, everything. But what we do is in mic, we call it the hot stock of the day, the hot chick of the day. It's like when you go to the bar and the hot girl is there, every guy is giving her attention. Chances are you're going to strike out. But her friend that may not be as attractive is ready to go, dude. You know what I'm saying? So, >> we're trying to re up some grenades here >> that I'm I You can't take the 10. You'll take the >> I'm trying to also speak and you know, I'm trying to get the younger audience, the 22 year olds. I'm trying to speak their lingo. >> And if my wife is watching this, I love you. This is for education,formational purposes only. So, I just want to get that out there. But, so what I realized is the main stock of the day, the main runner of the day, always has the most attention, always has the most traps, always has the most trouble. She'll take all your money and leave you out to the curb. So, what I do now is the remaining eight or nine stocks that pushed up and failed. What I'm looking for is I'm looking for them at the open to bounce to resistance, bounce to VWAP, bounce to a key area and fail. And that's kind of what I'm doing. So, I'm focusing on the stocks that people forgot about because most of the time in the small cap world, these are based on hype and momentum. And once the hype and momentum dies, they will fade. And most of the time, the hype and momentum will shift towards that main stock of the day. So, I let the inexperienced traders attack that crazy lunatic stock, let them lose their ass on it, and then I'll attack the stocks that people forget about. >> Yeah. One other question, speaking of some of this, did you ever get the opportunity to flex on that one X of yours? >> Uh, she's hit me up a couple times. >> Let's go. Oh, nice. Then you're just like, you'll never get this. I'm too rich for you. >> And I'm in my pile of gold coins swimming like Scrooge McDuck. >> Yeah, it's crazy, man. But you know what? That was the best thing that ever happened to me because >> that's how life works. Everything everything does actually work out. >> Dude, I just thought like when I was working at Starbucks, I just thought I was going to own like a bunch of Starbuckses. I heard that like a couple guys that own like a bunch of Dunkin Donuts get rich. So, I was like, dude, instead of doing Dunkin Donuts, let me do Starbucks. >> Well, what's funny too is you entered trading as a career thinking it's going to be the easy quick path to riches. And I think many people first encounter trading thinking that, especially these days in the modern era of fake influencers, which we're going to get into. But what you found is that look, trading is the opposite of get-rich quick. It is stand a small outlier chance to get rich quite frustratingly and slowly with a lot of speed bumps, uh roadblocks ups downs everything in between. But you persevered and have found amazing success. But even better, uh, especially in today's modern era of of [ __ ] in the space, you've done so transparently. You've posted your broker statements. You've, uh, verified yourself on Kinfo. And we always talk about this all the time, which is we're trying to be real, positive advocates for the space, and it's this constant struggle against just all the fake [ __ ] out there. So, what is it meant for you to be transparent, for you to try and show the true realities of trading? >> Dude, that's great. Um, I think the biggest problem in the trading industry is how how off the timeline of success could be. So, let me ask you, Lance, how long did it take you to become profitable? It took me with firm capital, direct mentorship, working my ass off with a salary, with capital, with incredible technology. Like, people can't comprehend how hard I was working. I was the definition of allin. Not part-time, nothing like that. It took me two years. >> Okay. It took me a little bit over three years. Right. And here's what I love about you, Lance, is you said that you didn't have a talent for trading. You sucked. You were the worst possible trader that ever existed ever when you started. >> Facts, >> right? So, think about that is like the worst worst worst dude, I don't mean this in a bad way. The worst worst worst trader turned into one of the top traders in the world. So, the reality is that we all start at level zero, right? I didn't have my dad hated the market. He said the market was a scam, right? So I didn't know what a level two was. I didn't know what a time of sales. I didn't know what any of that was. So I think number one is letting people understand it. There is going to be a learning curve, right? So if you want to make more money than a doctor, a lawyer or an engineer combined, what you have to remember is this. Doctors eight years in medical school. You know, lawyers five years in law school. You know, engineers four or five years as well. is you have to be willing to at least put a couple years into trading school to be able to get the results that you want. And if you're unwilling to put in that time, you are not going to see the results and the success. I am 12 years into my trading journey and I am still trying to learn and still trying to get better. And I'm trying to surround myself by with other traders because one thing that everyone has to remember is this. When you place a trade, it's me and it's Lance on the other side of the trade. And if you're not ready, we're going to take your money because that's I want people to be unfortunately traders to enter the market to be as uneducated as possible because the less they know, the more money we can make. >> You want to know what I think is one of the biggest fallacies in markets that never gets talked about. And I don't know if I've really explicitly said this. Here's where I think people delude themselves. And I'm going to do this one analogy. I think it's it's this one uh basketball player, Scallabrini, where everybody on the internet would just talk a bunch of [ __ ] to him and be like, "You suck. You suck." And he would play all these keyboard warriors in in one-on-one basketball and they would be D1 basketball players. They would be college basketball players. They would be local hoopers and everything. Scallabbrini would crush all of them. And it almost became a thing where like, "Hey, he's not that great for the NBA." He would wipe the floor with everyone else. And he said one of my favorite lines ever. He said, "I'm closer to LeBron in skill level than you're ever going to be close to me in skill level." And the trading analogy I want to make to that is people see traders make a million dollars, $5 million, $10 million. And what they say is, you know what? Look, I don't need to make the million bucks. I'm trying to just make a hundredk a year. I'm just trying to make 500 bucks a day, a,000 bucks a day. But the big fallacy is they think that, oh, if I'm at zero and someone's at a million, I just need to get 10% as good as them and I can make a 100K a year trading and I can part-time trade, I can this, I can that. And what I would say to make any amount of money, 50k a year, 100k a year, consistently year-over-year, making 50k a year is closer in skill level to a million dollars per year than zero is to 50k. And so so many people think, oh, I'm just going to casually, you know, sell some options, covered calls, this, that, whatever. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, my friend. Like to even make league minimum, that is immensely talented. You you got to become a Scallabrini, >> dude. That is such a powerful frame. Wow. It's like so true. It's like, man, I just always go back to the fact that like whenever I'm placing a trade, I have to remember that like, am I studying harder? Did I double check the news? Did I double check the chart? Did I do everything in my power to make sure that the person on the other side of the trade doesn't know what I know? You know, and that's like what I think is super super important is like everyone knows that these small cap companies are scams. Everyone knows that, you know, all these things happen. But the reality is, it's just about timing. Like, if you can't get the timing right on these things, it doesn't matter how much information, you know. It's just like there's going to be a guy that holds a stock that goes from one to 100 back down to one. You know what I'm saying? Like, at the end of the day, like you have to remember, yeah, they might have made some P&L in the process, but do they even know what they're playing with is the question. How educated are you? You want to know what's crazy to think about and how it speaks to what a performance endeavor this is and how you really need to be on that knife's edge of skill set. I bet if you were to have me sleep five hours per night, like if you forced me to sleep 5 hours per night every night, I think I would probably be net negative, >> which is crazy. 15 years of experience, like I think just that level of impairment of like decision-m, emotions, everything, that alone would kind of screw me up. And then you factor in the people that are like working two jobs, trying to trade part-time while raising seven kids. It's like, bro, you have your your work cut out for you. Not that it's impossible, but you like you cannot underestimate just how hard it is because like you said, the market is a combination of all the most skilled players allocating more skilled players have generally more capital and you got to compete with Alex and his 10 plus years of experience uh with his pattern recognition and his different rule systems. Um you got to compete with me, Shark, Lucas, whoever. So you got to be able to to h compete in the league. >> Yeah. I mean, it's so funny because I think you posted a a video recently about uh what Alex Herozi taught you about trading. I'm a big Alex Hermoszi fan. So, I was watching that video, my wife came, she's like, "Dude, like all I hear is these two guys all day long. Like, what the hell?" And like, think about that. Like, so much so that I'm watching Hormosi and your content to try to improve, but like someone else might be watching, you know, the Chappelle Show or something. It's not it's not going to lead to the results that they're looking for. So you always have to ask yourself, are you putting in the work? And then remember is like you said, most of the P&L comes towards the tail end of your trading. >> So if you're willing to sacrifice a few years to be in the dirt, a few years to sacrifice, a few years to watch and learn and attend conferences and whatever else it may be, if you stick to it, the exponential P&L that you will generate is again more than a doctor, lawyer, and engineer, you know. So that's the way you have to think about is the long game, right? It's like imagine you say, you know what, Lance, um, for the next four years, you're going to make no money, but on year five, you're going to make 250K in a year. Then year six, you're going to make 500o. Then seven, you're going to make a million, or you're going to sign that contract. I mean, dude, I would say, dude, let's make it double the amount of time and double the amount of money, you know? So, like, that's the way you have to think about it. So for the first couple years, you're probably not going to make money. But if you stick to it, you learn the right process, you build the right routine, dude, the results are there. >> So you know the online space well. What do you think people should look for in a guru? >> Great question. So I think what's important in any type of online education is two things. Number one is not only are they getting results for themselves, but are they getting results for other people in their community? because you could be the best trader in the world, but you might not be the best educator. So, I think it's very very important that you not only prove your own success, which could be broker statements, Kinfo, whatever it is, but prove the success of people that have gone through your program. And then number two is something that's really, really key is are they trying to acquire you based on lifestyle marketing or are they trying to acquire you based on, you know, routine, process, whatever it may be. Like for me, I mean, Lance, I'm a big car guy. I have like four cars. I have tons of watches. My wife and I travel all the time, but none of that content is in my marketing because in my opinion, that draws the wrong type of customer. I would rather focus on leading with my broker statements, leading with our community, leading with our reviews, leading with our members, leading with our testimonials to show people that I acquired all of this success and now I am also able to concisely pass that knowledge back down and scale our traders in the community. >> Love it. So, where we are now, what has been the highlight of your career thus far? We talked about the low lightss. Let's Let's give some uh light to the good. >> Yeah. I mean, highlight of my trading career. >> I'm sure 18-year-old heartbroken Alex never even imagined in his wildest dreams he'd be living the life he does now. >> You know what it is, man? I I want to keep it simple. The the biggest the the moment I realized I was rich is not from the houses, not from the cars, not from the watches, not from the cash. It's the moment I was rich and I think you can relate to to it too is when I went to a restaurant and I stopped looking at the prices on a menu. When I stopped looking at prices on the menu. >> God bless that feeling. >> Like not not worried about the Wagu that's $90 an ounce. Not worried about the tomahawk that's $300. Not worried about the wine that's $500. Like that to me, dude, was the moment I mean kind of getting goosebumps now too is like that's the moment I realized I was rich, dude. And that to me is super powerful because like I love food. I love cars. I love everything. And the cars are fun and like that's great. But like dude, just being able to go to like the nicest restaurants in the world and not even look. I do I don't even look. I don't even look at the price. I just get what I want. And dude, that to me is like life-changing. >> Well, it's true. And the funny part is we both uh grew up actually close by each other in Jersey, which we only only found out. But like certainly in my upbringing like that was the exact opposite of of my worldview, you know, like everything was oh no, what's what's the price? We we worried which was a lot of my driving factor and my my why to to find the success I did. And I think you're right. It's so easy to not give gratitude to those moments. Like the ability to go through life not worrying about freedom, security, uh if something goes wrong at every little payment, which I'm sure many of our, you know, generations before us never had that ability. And like to just take the moment and like, you know, think about 18-year-old heartbroken single Alex. Now you have found success. You can go out, order what you want. You have the nicest, most beautiful wife. You can travel. you can have your the cars that every uh 18-year-old dreamed of. Like that is the life. And the truth is like that nobody else will say is hideonic adaptation is real. Like you get so quick to your lifestyle when no matter what it is. And people think, "Oh, if I just make money, I'm going to be so happy." And what I've personally found is the only thing that breaks hydonic adaptation like like, okay, luxury kind of gets old. I mean, I don't even own nice cars. I have good quality of life. But what doesn't get old is sharing a really good meal, regardless of price. You know, we're foodies through and through. It doesn't matter the price. Sharing a really good meal with friends, at least for me, being outside in nature, playing uh anything active, Padell, pickle ball, volleyball, anything with friends. And just relationships and and our friendship and friendships with others and community honestly, which doesn't take the big money. It takes some some freedom from stressors and not that much money. >> Yeah. I mean, when I got started trading, like my goal was say like 100 grand a year. I felt like hitting 100 grand a year was like, dude, like if I can make a h 100red grand doing this, dude, I'll be rich forever. And then eventually it turned into $100,000 days or whatever it may be. And I think that to me, like I guess we're realizing right now is that, you know, when you're in the trading world and you're trying to be a top trader, it requires a lot of sacrifice. And I've sacrificed so much, you know, fun or so much stop and smell the roses that again, like I said when we started earlier is now I'm prioritizing low stress. I'm prioritizing enjoying my life because what I realize is trading becomes allconsuming. It becomes like an addiction. And if you're good at trading, it's like it's like what a shame to not be making all the money that we could be making because we have this talent, right? But the reality is that you start to realize that quality of life is not directly correlated to P&L. Just because you make more P&L doesn't equal to more quality of life. Sometimes it's the opposite. And when you've gone through that struggle, like people have no idea what I sacrificed. >> Even in college, I was the freaking loser tutoring, working my way through school, studying my ass off because I had my eye on the prize already. I knew I needed like this was post 2008. I needed to leave school and and make money. Like there was no there was no safety cushion, right? And it was I need to work. The second I was on the job, I knew what those statistics were. I worked so hard. I was in every Sunday. I sacrificed social life. I sacrificed relationships. As my opening hook says, I traded my health for wealth. And not just uh health, but also just just socializing and just the normal life that people live. Going out for a a nice sit-down lunch on a sunny day. Uh taking a weekend off and not thinking about markets. None of that was what existed. And then eventually, one of the hardest things is reprogramming yourself to say, "Hey, look, I have enough. I can I can still do this, but I need boundaries so I can now make up for the lost time in other areas." >> 100%. Man, it's it's funny because like, dude, I love trading. Like, I love trading, but like I kind of hate it too sometimes. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think it's like the best worst job in the world. So, like there's opportunities like right before we came here like a news news came out on oil and like you know seeing what's going to happen. Should I be in the trade? What should I do? And then I think in my head like is it really worth the stress of like wondering what the hell is going to happen when I could just enjoy a great conversation? >> Totally. Well, and and I think people can get so lost in this fake world of ours. And I know we're going on a crazy Daniel, but I think it's important like >> like take take for myself um in in my 20s, I was grinding like and I know it's almost popular on like Twitter like oh you know grind culture like I don't know what the kids call wealth maxing. I don't even know. But like >> looks maxing too. >> Yeah, looks maxing. I don't know if I was ever so good at but like >> I'm still working on that one. >> Yeah, we both are. Maybe that's our next next lesson. we got to come back to all plastic surgery. Like the truth is like I was grinding in my 20s and that came you know my dad passed away in my early 20s right and the time during those years like I moved to Chicago for work even when I was still in in in New York and everything I was just working dude and so there are times that you can't make back and it's one of those things where like the people in trading world especially the successful ones most of the successful people to some degree have lost sight that The reason why we trade and why we made money is for life and freedom and relationships and we work to live rather than living to work. And I fall victim to that myself, but it's so true. >> That's huge, man. And it's actually funny. I want to ask you a question, Lance, is you were running your Chicago office, right? So my question to you is when you were hiring a trader, what did you need to see in them to believe that they have what it takes to become successful? I actually think hiring traders is incredibly difficult and will always have some degree of randomness because the reality is you would want to see someone on a desk for for a couple months. What's their work ethic? What's their understanding? All like you're really trying to with any job interview reduce it down to a couple just in-person communication. Some people speak very well. Some people are good communicators. Some people are salesy and know the game. um when surviving in trading is a different skill set. And so the things that I think are very important having a powerful why uh having a burn the bridges mentality of like no I will sacri like I will sacrifice anything to make it having a long-term process focus. If anyone's trying to get rich quick you might as well not even bother. Um a passion and a love for markets. Are you trading? Do you know what's going on? Have you done it? Like when I was in college, I was able to talk about everything. I was following Wall Street Journal. I was watching CNBC. I knew the themes. I knew what was moving the market. Is someone also receptive to coaching? Has someone done uh athletics or anything at a high level? I like to see someone that's done anything at a high level because they know how hard it is. Even if it's like endurance running or running a a 100 mileer or a 50 mileer, it's like, wow, you know how shitty it is to wake up at 6 am on a Saturday and have to train for seven hours and revolve your whole life around something or you've you've lost big games if you face setbacks uh and you've persevered. So I mostly look for stuff like that, but it's so hard to know what limiting beliefs someone might have, how actually receptive. So um >> it's resilience. resilience. That's really important. >> So, let me ask you, Lance, you know a lot of top traders like the Shark, the Swang, the Raph, the Lucas. What makes them them? Do they have a singular thing in common or is it all the same things that you mentioned? >> I think for all those really top traders, there's something unique to them. Uh they all have their strengths, they all have their weaknesses. But I what I do think is universal is a level of competitiveness and obsession that most people just cannot grasp. And I don't think it's one of those things that you're born with it. Like like take take this for example. You hear stories of of Tom Brady where he can he can be playing a charity basketball game and he I read some funny article where he was with other celebrities, another football player, and it's a charity game. Everyone's fooling around. No one wants to get hurt. One of the guys on his team isn't running back to play defense. And Tom Brady's just yelling at him, cursing him out. And the guy's like, "Tom, this is aing charity game. I don't give a [ __ ] Get off my ass." And so you do hear these stories of people that are just hyper competitive in everything. I don't think I'm like that, but I do think in trading I was like that. And so it doesn't need to be universal. But like in trading, especially in Trillium, which was such a pressure cooker because you saw everyone everyone trading, you saw everyone's performance around you. I just was looking up the totem pole. Oh, you're one step better than me. My eyes on you. I want to just crush you. And you know, every single day I want to outperform you. And I think all the good people at Trillium, they were like hyper competitive, which has its downsides and trade-offs, but I think even if you take a Lucas, I I always joke about about Lucas and and you know, I'll he'll probably get a laugh if this watches this, but like when you when you talk to to Lucas, like he has had an obsession in a single tracked mind like to put him on his path from a very young age. think um even even like you know Connor Bates, Ted Zang, uh Arlo from Chicago, like you talk to those guys, it is single-minded obsession. >> And I think the average person just doesn't >> have that love or like that desire that just that dog in them. >> You got to want it. >> Yeah, you got it. >> And that's the part that can't really be taught. Um you got to find it internally, >> dude. 100%. I totally agree. Um, I got some questions for you too, Lance. I got a couple more in my me. >> Um, so I was talking to uh Jack Kellogg about this a couple days ago and we were talking about how there's Alex the human, which is like a normal dude, and Alex the traitor that's crazy. Do you ever find yourself trying to reel in Lance the Trader or do you think that you have a good control on, you know, him and his habits? Because for me, if I let Alex the Trader take over, he gets buck wild. So, I need to know his tendencies to be able to pull him back in. >> Well, yes. I mean, I do think the biggest struggle of my last couple years has been the inability to move away from trading as much as I've wanted. So, since post trillium world at the end of 2021, my trading volume has de not necessarily volume, but my frequency has decreased decreased. But I found it so hard I when you've built this skill set to then just be like, "No, I don't need to maximize the money and their performance. This isn't some competitive game anymore." So I have found that most traders at our level, they have such an inability to turn it off. And so most of my struggle is trying to form the boundaries so that I can actually live a normal life, a healthy life, a happy life, and not have that feeling of FOMO, that that competitiveness, that uh need to just make make the big money because everyone else is. That's been just incredibly hard. Like people always joke about the the oh, I'm I'm an addict. I'm a I'm a gambling addict. This and that. I do think trading has so many similarities psychologically to gambling addicts and especially if you have a skill set and it's positive and adaptive and you make money society views highly upon it to then walk away when the markets and all your friends are making money and it's out there is so hard. >> You know what it is? It's like you rather walk away at the top than walk away at the bottom. So I think that's super >> well and most people you know I've seen so many horrific stories of people that just don't walk away. Do you play cards like in Vegas or like blackjack or anything like that? >> Uh, no. I I don't love gambling itself. Poke poker's okay. I I I play it a little bit, but I No one would say I'm good at pokering. >> Every single top trader that I've ever spoken to, I always ask the question. They always say no. That's why it's so interesting because people always think that like >> negative expected value, bro. Like why why would I go to the casino to lose money? >> It's like such a way. I mean to me like people say, "Oh, isn't it just like gambling? Don't you do the same thing?" Like, dude, if I lose like $1,000 at the table, I'll be pissed for the entire day. I >> I don't even get mildly aroused from gambling. Like, even even on the trading side, like to even get my attention, we we we're talking like we got to be mid6 six figure loss or gain to even get my attention. So, >> so doesn't do it. >> You recently had a really big trade. I think it was last year when you saved the Asian market and you made a record P&L for yourself. Do you think that you're going to try to push for another record P&L or have you hit that milestone that you feel like all right I'm good like I don't need the risk anymore like I don't need to do that. >> My goal if I actually am good and and growing as a human being is to never have exposure like that ever again. Um just because it's not necessary like why risk huge sums of capital still and just put put my health through that you know I was up for two days. them. So like I think on the actual trading performance like goals per se, I've done everything I've wanted to accomplish and that's why you see more of my time going towards content going towards giving back and trying to help others because I don't want to go back to that. >> It's it's a sad state when you have like one of your best trades ever of your career and that was like one of my peak performances and then I walked away and I'm like oh my god like that was miserable. It's like the top of the mountain theory, right? Like when you get to the top of the mountain, >> the other thing is when you're behind those screens, you lose relation to the world. Like that money has no bearing. You're doing it generally alone. And in no way is that as fulfilling to me as recording some awesome piece of content that people love. In no way is that as fulfilling to me as going out to dinner with with people I love and having just a great meal or just catching a sunset, a sunrise, being out by the water. >> There's different priorities. What about uh >> what about uh what's a purchase that you made, Lance, that you regret making? Like did you ever buy anything and be like, you know what, dude, this is so stupid. Like, I hate it. >> You know what? I think to my credit, I've generally been pretty resistant on the on the just obscene luxury purchases. the stuff that I so I I can't think of anything I I regret. The things that I think have had the most value, um investing in convenience and and quality of life. I love uh I mean nowadays if I love subsidizing my friends for nice meals, travel, uh I went to the Rose Bowl to see IU take the Rose Bowl like front row seats for all my friends. Um so mostly investing back in communities where it matters, investing with my friends. Um, and then also my health. I love learning about longevity. I love learning about different passions. Even meeting with Heroszy, that's an investment because I love learning. I like being curious. I like developing my skill sets. I like seeing, can I produce uh the best content? Can I educate really well? Can I explain something better? So, I've not I've not had any dumb purchases because I've really I know myself well enough to know that if I do some stupid flex, like it's not going to do anything for me. Speaking of Hormosi, what did you see in their operation that you think I know you made a video of something similar to this, but what did you see in their operation that you could relate to trading as well? What I would say is it's it's all the same. It's this view of like how can I be most effective as possible? How can I allocate my time to where it matters? And then ultimately, they live and die by what they teach. And you see it in everything Hermoszie does. Hermozy does not check his emails because that's a waste of his time. Heroszie does not order his own food or figure out, you know, oh, what am I going to eat for lunch today? Herosey has made all the things that matter to him and his life easy. In the headquarters, there is a massive, it's probably like 3,000 square foot gym. It's because he loves working out. He loves working out with his co-workers. And so, he's made the stuff that matters for him easy, and he's made it so his time goes to the most effective points. And I think as traders, we need to find the fundamental truths in markets. Why does something work? Where does edge come from? What are the patterns? What's the market telling us? And he's listening to a different type of market, you know, like a a business, a startup market, but it's all the concepts are the same. Any business you are trying to get the highest return on investment for your time. And that means if you're a trader at the end of the day outside markets on the average week maybe you invest another 10 hours outside markets maybe 20 hours tops. So the real question is 9 9:30 to 4 even even 8:30 to 4:30ish you're trading your time outside of that is maybe 1 to two hours a day. Trading at its essence is a game of how do you take those one to two hours and use them as effectively as possible and also maximize like your focus. So it's like how do you maximize the hours outside of trading and then make them as effective as possible? Like that's all of what trading or business or life is. We all have a set amount of hours. So how do you get off your your dumb [ __ ] phone with the social media with the distractions with the lifestyle flexes? How do you shut that noise out so that you can apply your time as effectively as possible to your objective? Like that is the meaning of life. Whatever your objective is, whether it's a trading profit, whether it's a startup, whether it's finding happiness, health, hitting the gym, how do you design your life so your time goes where it's actually supposed to go? >> Yeah, that's powerful because like like you said, we're in the trenches and we're trading every day and we get lost in the sauce, right? >> We deal. Yeah. >> So like you need to kind of have that realization. That's kind of like your version of like a pod. what we do is like a trading accountability buddy. You need that buddy or that friend to be able to kind of snap you out of it, too. Because like you said, you said some of your best times was with Surge and having those beers at 3 p.m. You know, some of my >> the best of times, the worst of times. >> Yeah. Same thing for me is like I had my best of times when I'm hanging out with my team, talking, having a good dinner, and just enjoying the life outside of trading that we've earned through the years of sacrifice. >> Yep. Okay. Look, I'm done with your questions. I'm hitting you with the speed round. Okay, do it. >> Favorite restaurant in Miami. >> You have a restaurant in Miami? I say Coat. >> I will actually second coat. Okay. Co Korean barbecue. Absolute fire. Um, also the manager there, Braum. He's the man. A side note. Okay. Your favorite car you've ever driven. >> So, dude, I've had a bunch of cars. I love cars. I'm a big car guy. My favorite car ever, ever, ever that I recommend anyone to get is a Lamborghini Huracan Performante. It's the special edition Lamborghini that has all these like arrow things in it. Lightweight, fast, V10, all-wheel drive, comfortable, sounds amazing. I've had GT3 RS, Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, everything. That car, dude, I am like stunned by how good it is. I've driven it personally 24,000 miles while working at home. I love it. That's amazing. >> I love it, dude. If you if anyone ever wants a car, get them because the price is shooting up as well cuz now they're switching to hybrid, electric, V8 turbo. It's trash. V10. It's unbelievable. >> Okay, final question. What is your last message for the audience that you want to impart upon them? >> Trading takes time, but if you do it right, you'll be successful. My biggest advice is stick to your risk. Stop out when your plan tells you to stop out because your future self will thank you. We've all been in that situation where you're, let's say, short of stock and your stop is at $5, it goes to five, you don't stop out. And it goes to 550 and you say, "If it just goes back to five, I'll get out." And it goes to six and you're like, "Please go to 550 so I could take a small loss." And it goes to 7 8 9 and you're dead. So I would give you the same advice I would give myself. Stop being an idiot. Stick to your risk. your trading account will reward you. And if you cannot stick to the risk yourself, use the technology to help you. Because in my opinion, and I'm sure Lance could agree, is the thing that separates traders is not their ability to make money. It's to control their losses. Well, traders, there you have it. To no surprise, trading is all about the long game, the constant improvement, the taking our own life struggles, our difficulties, our emotional pain, and transforming it into work and progress. Over the long run, if you control your risk, the upside will take care of itself. Alex has said that. My own mentor has said that. And that is our advice to you. So, thank you, Alex, for your transparency in this community. Thank you for your friendship. And thank you being here today. >> Let's get some good food. >> Let's get some good food. Hit that follow button. Hit that subscribe. And we'll see you in the next video. Thank you everyone.